Fixture Gaugin inside stock

[Metco]

I really dont know why GC decided this with V23 but for what ever reason i would think you would find a solution rather then take it off
so GC decided to take off Gouging allarms for fixtures inside the stock box, it only gives you allarms for fixtures outside the stock
so how are we ment to know if the cutter is going hit the jaws barried inside the stock as example?
is there a work around?

[George Woyansky]

I really dont know why GC decided this with V23 but for what ever reason i would think you would find a solution rather then take it off
so GC decided to take off Gouging allarms for fixtures inside the stock box, it only gives you allarms for fixtures outside the stock
so how are we ment to know if the cutter is going hit the jaws barried inside the stock as example?
is there a work around?

Sim Gouge checking against fixtures still works. What they changed is that if your tool cuts into a fixture, it no longer renders the cut into the fixture body in a brighter shade of red. You can hog away at a fixture and when you've finished, the fixture looks intact. This is not a great change, I agree. At the very least, it should be an option. You could be doing a long render of something and then go to look at it and you won't see that you've cut in places you shouldn't (or didn't expect to).

[bschanz]

Has anyone reported this to support. They did a overhaul of the rendering and probably missed that.

[Mjbanderson]

What they changed is that if your tool cuts into a fixture, it no longer renders the cut into the fixture body in a brighter shade of red. You can hog away at a fixture and when you've finished, the fixture looks intact. This is not a great change, I agree.

+1, not a fan.

I'm sure there is a reason why they made this change, but it currently evades any logic, to me anyways. Personally, I would never not want to see where a tool hit a fixture (unless it was categorized as a 'sacrificial fixture', of coarse ).

https://forums.gibbscam.com/showthread.php/6043-Collision-Detect-Option?p=36594#post36594

This 'fixture rendering change' undermines our set-up sheets as well. We have a picture of the rendering on the sheet, so I anticipate that every time we cut into a fixture that no longer renders (and no longer shows up in the picture), I am going to have a guy coming in to ask me, 'hey, is this right?' or 'is the tool supposed to do this?'.

I'll stick with v22 for the time being...

[JCable1974]

This is the answer I received from support....

"This was done after a discussion with MachineWorks (the creator of the simulation engine) who informed us that enabling cutting on Fixtures was against their best practices and would cause problems. It was highly recommended by them to turn this off to avoid any potential problems it can cause."

[Mjbanderson]

This is the answer I received from support....

"This was done after a discussion with MachineWorks (the creator of the simulation engine) who informed us that enabling cutting on Fixtures was against their best practices and would cause problems. It was highly recommended by them to turn this off to avoid any potential problems it can cause."

Looks like sacrificial fixtures are out of the question then.
I think it would be best to have this as a preference so the end user to decide what's best... as opposed to force feeding another unwanted change.

[JeremyS]

This is the answer I received from support....

"This was done after a discussion with MachineWorks (the creator of the simulation engine) who informed us that enabling cutting on Fixtures was against their best practices and would cause problems. It was highly recommended by them to turn this off to avoid any potential problems it can cause."

This is exactly the reason, pretty sure I provided it to support. Allowing the cutting of fixtures in this scenario, caused additional simulation issues and when reported to them is when they pointed out that we should not be enabling the cutting of fixtures.

[Mjbanderson]

You could be doing a long render of something and then go to look at it and you won't see that you've cut in places you shouldn't (or didn't expect to).

The people who design fixtures are not the ones who do the tool selection and create the toolpath, so they cant always outguess what diameter tool the programmers are going to use or do from what angle.
Being able to see where a tool cut into a fixture aided in modifying a fixture so the tool doesn't cut into it (assuming you didnt want to cut into it). Overlaying geometry against a rendering is something I do quite often.

This is exactly the reason, pretty sure I provided it to support. Allowing the cutting of fixtures in this scenario, caused additional simulation issues and when reported to them is when they pointed out that we should not be enabling the cutting of fixtures.

Was there something specific to 'this scenario' that caused this, or is it all the same (cutting into a body set as 'fixture' or 'fixture display only)?

How does this change affect the potential enhancement of 'sacrificial fixtures?
I know that it's far more complicated that just the pacification of us end users. Just trying to find a happy medium and gain some functionality back.

[JeremyS]

Was there something specific to 'this scenario' that caused this, or is it all the same (cutting into a body set as 'fixture' or 'fixture display only)?

How does this change affect the potential enhancement of 'sacrificial fixtures?
I know that it's far more complicated that just the pacification of us end users. Just trying to find a happy medium and gain some functionality back.

Those are all good questions and I don't remember the exact issue (I think it caused sim to make the stock disappear, but I'm not 100% certain and can't look it up at the moment). We do understand what you want, the way we implemented it wasn't right (so says Machineworks who are definitely the experts of their own library) so we had to change that. That doesn't mean we can't bring it back in some other fashion, just means not right now. I understand how it feels like we took it away without a replacement...had we been able to plan this better we would have tried to time it as such that a replacement method was available.

[Metco]

Sim Gouge checking against fixtures still works. What they changed is that if your tool cuts into a fixture, it no longer renders the cut into the fixture body in a brighter shade of red. You can hog away at a fixture and when you've finished, the fixture looks intact. This is not a great change, I agree. At the very least, it should be an option. You could be doing a long render of something and then go to look at it and you won't see that you've cut in places you shouldn't (or didn't expect to).

it actually doesn't give you allarms what so ever also when you render if you hit fixtures.
check it out
i have a file here if you want to look at it and see that its not just that it doesn't show the cut it accually doesnt generate the allarm that you hitting fixture material..
i submited to suports got the same answer as the above.
in my mind this is a set back not a way forward..
i would really be happy if GC find a solution to give to customers as option.
i attached the file for you to see

[JCable1974]

Jeremy, has there been any more thought put into this issue of showing cuts into fixtures? Even with collision checking on it is possible to completely miss a crash. Just this morning I had collision checking on, but I didn't realize that I didn't have a checkbox ticked under settings (ex. log to display). I had an endmill move that cut into a fixture, but didn't get an alarm (because nothing was ticked), nor did I have the visual feedback to actually see the hit. Fortunately, I noticed it before posting. In my opinion, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

[bschanz]

Jeremy, has there been any more thought put into this issue of showing cuts into fixtures? Even with collision checking on it is possible to completely miss a crash. Just this morning I had collision checking on, but I didn't realize that I didn't have a checkbox ticked under settings (ex. log to display). I had an endmill move that cut into a fixture, but didn't get an alarm (because nothing was ticked), nor did I have the visual feedback to actually see the hit. Fortunately, I noticed it before posting. In my opinion, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

I agree. It is a mega crash waiting to happen.

[Jeff Schueller]

I am glad there are people speaking up about this.

[JCable1974]

Well, this bit me again. Completely missed an errant toolpath into a (fixture) jaw because I did not see it visually. Granted this is my fault because collision checking was off, but I have relied on the ability to see movement into fixtures for so long that I am finding this change very difficult to get used to. Please, please bring back display of cutting into fixtures!

[JeremyS]

We've been working with our simulation vendor on this. With a recent delivery, they have addressed an issue that should allow us to re-enable this (they previously said that us enabling fixture cutting was against best practices and as such caused other issues in their system). We need to test this internally, and if that goes well you can expect it in an upcoming web update for 2023 and in 2024 when it is available.